Ground Zero Mosque Controversy

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

JOY BEHAR Plans to build a Muslim center near Ground Zero are becoming a huge cause celebre here in New York City. Protesters say it`s offensive. Supporters say it would be a beacon of tolerance.

With me now to discuss this are Daisy Khan, spokeswoman for the center and executive director of American Society for Muslim Advancement; Roy Sekoff, founding editor of HuffingtonPost.com and Pam Geller, author of “The Post American Presidency: The Obama administration`s war on America” and staunch opponent of the Muslim center.

Let me start with you Pam. Why are you so against the center?

PAMELA GELLER, AGAINST MUSLIM CENTER NEAR GROUND ZERO: I`m against the mosque at Ground Zero. We feel it is intolerant. It is insensitive to the families and to America that was attacked on 9/11. We feel it would be more appropriate maybe to build a center dedicated to expunging the Koranic texts of the violent ideology that inspired jihad, or perhaps a center to the victims of hundreds of millions of years of Jihadi wars, land enslavements, cultural annihilations and mass slaughter.

BEHAR: I understand that it`s not exactly a mosque. It`s a community center, right, Daisy?

DAISY KHAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR MUSLIM ADVANCEMENT: Yes, it`s a community center with a prayer space inside.

BEHAR: With a prayer space.

GELLER: A prayer space is a mosque. It`s a mosque.

BEHAR: A mini-mosque.

KHAN: Yes, a mini-mosque.

[13-story mini-mosque]

ROY SEKOFF, FOUNDING EDITOR, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: But when you hear like 13-story mosque, there is a lot of praying going on there. But then when you find out there`s a swimming pool, a basketball court, you know, a lot is in the presentation.

BEHAR: Yes, it`s a little like the JCC on the upper west side that has a lot of things going on.

GELLER: On their side it was a mosque until people started to take issue with it. So I think the deception, the fact that there is a deception, it is a mosque, it`s not a mosque, it`s a mosque.

BEHAR: Do you have an answer to that?

KHAN: Well, it`s a prayer space. Whether you want to call it a mosque or you want to call it a prayer space, what we have to do is we have accommodate the needs of the growing Muslim community in lower Manhattan. We`re already in the neighborhood. We`re not new to the neighborhood. The imam has been the imam of the mosque ten blocks from Ground Zero in Tribeca. So this is the American Muslim communities, those who live in New York. It`s their opportunity to give back to the community. And we want to revitalize. We want to be at the front end of revitalizing lower Manhattan. And this is our way of doing that, giving back to the community.

BEHAR: I don`t get your objection to it because it`s not on the site exactly. It`s off the site.

GELLER: It`s right there, it`s 600 feet. It`s 600 feet from the hallowed ground of 9/11, of Ground Zero.

BEHAR: Yes.

GELLER: I don`t think the government should stop it. I don`t think landmarks should stop it. I really believe they should be sensitive. We need to be sensitive to the Muslim world. We can`t say Mohammed on Comedy Central. We can`t run Mohammed in a little huggie-bear costume.

BEHAR: Well, that`s — you`re talking about extremists now. I think you have to differentiate between Muslims and extremists. You`re conflating them, and that might be a mistake.

SEKOFF: My question would be, you know, when it comes to pushing hot buttons — they say the three most important things, location, location, location. So at what point? You say it`s 600 feet, would 800 feet be ok? Would two blocks around the side? When does it become ok? Three blocks? Three and a half?

GELLER: What I`m saying is I think that people — I think they should be sensitive to the families, the 9/11 families. We are always being asked to be sensitive to the Muslim world.

BEHAR: Yes. I got that.

GELLER: Why didn`t we run the Danish cartoons? Why did no media run –

BEHAR: Because Islamic fundamentalists and jihadists are objecting to that, not Muslims. Am I right?

GELLER: Did Patrick Henry say give me liberty or give me death unless you insult somebody?

BEHAR: But also Pam, didn`t a lot of Muslims die in 9/11 too?

GELLER: I don`t know. I think it was roughly around 20. I believe that Muslims have –

BEHAR: Where did you get that number?

GELLER: Where did you get your number?

BEHAR: I`m asking the question. Did you hear a number come out of my mouth?

GELLER: No, but I`m saying — no, a lot did not die. But I don`t think that the number — if one died it`s wrong, one or 20 or 50 or 100.

BEHAR: Ok.

GELLER: What I`m saying is the ideology that inspired jihad, jihad is part of Koranic texts and (INAUDIBLE) and Sura. Why can`t we work towards expunging the Islam of these violent texts? Wouldn`t that be a period of enlightenment much like –

BEHAR: Expunging from the Koran?

GELLER: Violent texts.

BEHAR: There is violent text in the bible.

GELLER: Nobody is blowing themselves up around the world.

BEHAR: Not right now, but they have.

[14 centuries ago]

GELLER: No, nobody is. Why are we rewriting reality? Why don`t we deal with reality as it happens?

BEHAR: Ok. The Tea Party leader says it`s a monument to terrorists. What is your answer to these people?

KHAN: Well, first of all, they`re completely ignorant of who Muslims are. There is 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

BEHAR: 1.5 billion.

KHAN: Billion.

BEHAR: In the United States?

SEKOFF: That`s probably the more important number.

KHAN: No, in the world.

BEHAR: In the world.

KHAN: Not the United States.

BEHAR: What am I saying? We have 300 million people here. Right.

KHAN: And there is estimated to be 6 to 8 million and growing in the United States. And all of us are law abiding citizens. Majority of us; there might be a fraction like we saw the other day. But what is really important is that there is a lot of ignorance about who Muslims are.

BEHAR: Right.

KHAN: And this, a center like this would be dedicating to removing that ignorance. And it will also counter the extremists.

[Pakistani Muslim, Muzzammil Hassan, was devoted to fighting that ignorance. He started a TV station in NY to “give American Muslims a voice and depict them in everyday real life situations” and then proceeded to beheaded his wife for wanting a divorce. All of us are law-abiding citizens?]

BEHAR: Right.

KHAN: Because the moderate Muslims need a voice. Their voices need to be amplified.

[What voices?]

BEHAR: Isn`t it better to put it there so that the moderate Muslims could have a say in all the arguments?

GELLER: At the last Friday sermon of Imam Raoul (ph), he said the opposition was hostile. Why were they so hostile? Their grandchildren were going to be Muslim anyway. What I`m saying you is that at some point –

BEHAR: I don`t understand.

GELLER: That our grandchildren were going to be Muslim anyway. So we ought to get –

BEHAR: Whose grandchildren?

SEKOFF: All of ours. That by the time that the next generation comes –

BEHAR: I will have one soon.

SEKOFF: Get on the phone. Honey, I don`t care, whatever.

GELLER: I mean we can`t dispute the fact that there is jihad commanded in the Koran. That there is tekiah (ph) which is deception and lies to advance Islam in non-Muslim societies. And I think we should be working in the spirit of humanity and brotherhood and love that we should be working towards expunging the very ideology that inspires jihad, the Times Square bomber, the Christmas balls bomber.

BEHAR: But you know what, Pam, that center is going to have a public memorial to 9/11.

KHAN: Yes.

BEHAR: Which doesn`t interfere with this whole idea at all.

GELLER: I understand the thing keeps morphing. Everything keeps morphing. It was a 13-story mosque. And it`s a mosque on the sacred ground of 9/11. We think that in the spirit of tolerance and mutual understanding and mutual –

BEHAR: In the spirit of tolerance, you would allow it.

GELLER: No, no — I`m not — who am I, God? I`m not disallowing it. I`m saying –

BEHAR: You`re protesting it.

GELLER: I`m protesting it because I feel that it`s very insensitive. It hurts the 9/11 families. All the families that were there last night, I think that it is incredibly insensitive to our feelings that it is humiliating and demeaning.

BEHAR: Just jump in. Just jump in.

KHAN: I want to jump in because we have received the support of the elected officials.

BEHAR: I know. They voted to put it up.

KHAN: The squadron, Stringer, Chin, they all came in support because they really want to see the Muslim community leading the effort to rebuild lower Manhattan.

[rebuild or take control?]

BEHAR: Right.

KHAN: And we have Jewish leaders who came out in support of our initiative. We had Christian leaders that came out in support of our initiative. We had 9/11 families, 250 families. The peaceful families, they really want a center like this. They want us to take the time –

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Can I ask you a question?

KHAN: And turn it to something positive.

[Only bright moment for Behar]

BEHAR: Can I ask a legit question? Where is the money for this? It`s going to cost $100 million. Where is the money coming from?

KHAN: That`s a very good question. Actually we went to the community board so we could excite them and find out what their needs were because it`s really for the community. We have not determined the full scope of this project. When our detractor says that we are shifting and changing, of course we are. The whole scope of the project has not been defined. You know, we heard from people so we decided we should have a memorial out of sensitivity to everyone.

[Why would they have had to hear from someone? And where's the money coming from?]

BEHAR: Right.

KHAN: We heard from the community and we`ve decided that there is going to be a senior citizens space because that is what is needed. We heard from the community. We are creating a 500-seat performing arts theater. So the money is not — we have not even started the fundraising campaign.

BEHAR: Are you afraid that there is going to be some kind of jihad thing going on there?

GELLER: I dislike the deception, the fact that the imam said that the Christians of the west were responsible for 9/11. The imam`s father was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

KHAN: That is not true. That`s false. That`s absolutely false.

(CROSSTALK)

GELLER: But there is evidence of it. And we could certainly spend time. We ought to present the evidence.

KHAN: This is a false statement.

GELLER: And the 49 Muslim nations that contributed to the 96 street Islamic Street Center, is that false too?

KHAN: I have absolutely no idea where you`re getting your information from because it`s false. You are actually making false statements. And my father-in-law has been dead for almost, you know, seven, eight years. And I think it`s very painful, a man who dedicated his life to interfaith dialogue who actually began interfaith dialogue in this country. He was a great luminary who shaped Islam in this country as a way of reaching out to interfaith communities. It`s wrong. It`s wrong to say something about somebody –

[FYI - the man in charge of the mosque doesn't believe in religious dialogue.]

BEHAR: We have to let the man speak. Let the guy speak for a second.

GELLER: I would be happy to post the evidence of the Muslim Brotherhood. And I do feel your pain. And we`re asking that you feel our pain.

SEKOFF: Well, that is actually the point of this whole discussion, Joy is that this is a discussion where I can actually see both sides. I really can. But symbolism cuts two ways. I mean I can understand here one man`s symbolism — a slap in the face is a gesture of brotherhood. The question though is at the end of the day if it`s going to go either way, where does America come down?

The genius of America, the beauty of America is that we err on the side of tolerance, we err on the side of openness, we err on the side of, you know, letting inclusion in. And for me the number is not how many people died, but the fact that you say 1.5 billion Muslims. Are we going to say to them you`re not welcome here? You`re viewed as the enemy here. I think that`s a dangerous message.

[Insane. The mosque is 600 feet from Ground Zero. It has nothing to do with 1.5B Muslims or not being welcoming. Simple respect dictates that that site not be desecrated. If one wants to take advantage of religious freedom one has to be mindful of others.]

BEHAR: It kind of contributes to more hatred of America.

GELLER: Oh, I don`t think so.

BEHAR: Yes.

GELLER: I think it would be lovely if we said we understand the feelings of the victims of 9/11. We won`t — we won`t put a giant mosque here. I disagree. I think that that would be an extraordinary gesture of goodness, mutual respect and mutual understanding. No one is telling them they can`t. We`re asking them not to.

BEHAR: Well then, they are going to. They already voted to do it.

GELLER: Well the vote has no power.

BEHAR: Ok.

GELLER: The vote has no power. There`s no power in the vote.

KHAN: The important thing is — the important thing is what the community said yesterday.

BEHAR: Yes.

KHAN: Twenty-nine people voted in favor of this because we are bringing much needed amenities.

[Was a mosque - now it's supplying amenities.]

GELLER: But the crowd was very much against it.

BEHAR: All right.

GELLER: And the elected officials, the politicians do not reflect the people`s sentiments at all. I was there.

BEHAR: Ok, thank you very much, everybody.